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VIAGOGO SELLING OLYMPIC TICKETS ON THE SPANISH MARKET

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Original Message Post # 1
Sat 2nd Jun 2012 17:21
ackerman2406

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I have been asked by the site moderator to move my last comments to another thread, so I am repeating them here:

I am guessing this will help the original poster by painting a broader picture of Viagogo.

Once again, I have been in touch with LOCOG who assure me that Aristeia are the official re-sellers for Olympic tickets in Spain and it is perfectly legal for them to re-sell them through the Viagogo Spanish website. Suggest that anyone who wants to confirm this calls LOCOG themselves as I am not prepared to pay another zillion pounds a second to speak to them yet again.

Markland, Nazi collaborators were certainly partners in crime. Please let's not argue this point. The Concise Oxford Dictionary is more knowledgable than both of us put together.
To quote:
"collaborate v.i. work in partnership. collaboration n., collaborator n"

 
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Post # 2
Top Mon 4th Jun 2012 15:44
Markland

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Viagogo are indeed supplying the website and Aristeia are authorised resellers of Olympic tickets

The point is viagogo are not

The point was dealt with in the BBC Radio 4 interview

Nowhere have we said Aristeia are not authorised, quite the opposite, we have stated clearly they are authorised but that viagogo are not, no matter what spin they try to put out to give the impression they are via the use of the word "collaboration"

And there is a great deal of difference between being partners and working in partnership

Aristeia and viagogoare not partners, they are collaborating, or working in partnership by the dictionary definition

Viagogo are doing nothing more than provide a website for Aristeia, no matter how its spun

Must be nice being part of the Olympic family by providing a website for a ticket reseller!

We'd suggest people ask LOCOG one very simple question "Are viagogo authorised to resell Olympic tickets"

They are not
 
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Post # 3
Top Mon 4th Jun 2012 16:12
nancyhaven

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viagogo and Aristeia announce a new ticket partnership


viagogo Press Release
April 17, 2012



viagogo, Europe’s largest online ticket marketplace has today announced a new partnership with Aristeia, a leading European hospitality provider to offer a range of online ticketing solutions.

The Aristeia web shops powered by viagogo will enable the hospitality provider to offers its customers and clients greater access to the hottest entertainment tickets for a broad range of sporting events. The online ticket shops will be powered using state of the art technology solutions, providing a safe and secure platform to buy live event tickets.

Alex Zivoder, viagogo's Managing Director Europe said “Our exciting new partnership with Aristeia further cements our commitment in providing consumers with greater access to the best in live entertainment.”

Don't like to take sides - but in the article above Viagogo use the "P" word twice. Partnership and collaboration really do mean one and the same thing. Markland can decide his own personal intrepretation of the words but he cannot change the dictionary definition.

Looks to me like ackerman asked the pertinant question to LOCOG and was answered in the positive.
 
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Post # 4
Top Mon 4th Jun 2012 17:12
harrytheo

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Who knows, who cares if Viagogo and Aristeia are in a legal partnership or not? But how on earth can you have an intelligent debate with someone who insists on altering the dictionary definition of a word to score a point?

Dictionary definitions:
PARTNER n. person sharing with another or others in an activity.
COLLABORATE v.i. work in partnership

WHAT OTHER MEANING IS THERE??????????
 
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Post # 5
Top Mon 4th Jun 2012 17:46
Markland

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The press release is from viagogo and its their usual brand of spin and semantics

All they are doing is providing a website for Aristeia who, mysteriously, seem to be unable to provide their own

viagogo are not authorised to sell Olympic tickets its as simple as that, this is simply more rubbish from viagogo to make itself look like an authorised official seller, which it is not

And the definition of a partners in business is:

noun
a person who takes part in an undertaking with another or others, especially in a business or firm with shared risks and profits

Collaborate is as follows;

verb
[no object]
1work jointly on an activity or project:
he collaborated with him on numerous hotel projects

Two totally different things

There is no shared risk with Aristeia, viagogo are simply providing them with a website

The bottom line is that viagogo if still based in the UK, would be breaking the law in relation to the sale of Olympic tickets as they are NOT authorised to resell them by LOCOG

viagogo and the other tout platforms consistently muddy the waters with these type of rubbish press releases in order to give themselves a veneer of legitimacy

A veneer that was stripped away by the Dispatches programme "The Great Ticket Scandal"

 
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Post # 6
Top Mon 4th Jun 2012 18:26
nancyhaven

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Quote from Markland - 4th Jun 2012 17:46 View
The bottom line is that viagogo if still based in the UK, would be breaking the law in relation to the sale of Olympic tickets as they are NOT authorised to resell them by LOCOG

No, the bottom line is that Viagogo now has it's Head Office in Switzerland.  LOCOG links you directly to Aristeia, who in turn link you directly to their OFFICIAL website, hosted by Viagogo.  How much more official do you want it to be?

 

 
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Post # 7
Top Tue 5th Jun 2012 01:16
Markland

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nancyhaven

I suggest you actually read the legislation

Here is the relevant section:

31Sale of tickets

(1)A person commits an offence if he sells an Olympic ticket—
(a)in a public place or in the course of a business, and
(b)otherwise than in accordance with a written authorisation issued by the London Organising Committee.

Aristeia have written authorisation from LOCOG

viagogo do not and are breaking the law
 
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Post # 8
Top Thu 7th Jun 2012 19:06
ackerman2406

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They have chosen to ... [Incident: deleted]‏
17:45 Reply ▼Reply
From: London 2012 Ticketing Team (London2012TicketingTeam@tickets.london2012.com)
Sent: 07 June 2012 (deleted)To: deleted


Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support centre. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

If this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction, you may reopen it within the next 4 days.

Thank you for your enquiry.


Please do not respond directly to this email as it is automatically generated and you will not receive a reply. If you have a further query and would like to contact us please visit http://tickets.london2012.custhelp.com


Subject
I understand ARISTEIA are the official re-sellers in Spain. They have chosen to ...

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (deleted) 07/06/2012 (deleted)

Dear (deleted)
Thank you for your email.

We can confirm that we are aware of Aristeia's partnership with Viagogo.sp and that they have not breached any of the rules set out for Authorised Ticket Reseller's.

We hope this information has been useful. Please get in touch if you have any further questions.

Best wishes,
(deleted) on behalf of The London 2012 Ticketing Team.
Customer By Web Form (deleted) 03/06/2012 09:36 AM
I understand ARISTEIA are the official re-sellers in Spain. They have chosen to sell the tickets through Viagogo Spain (NOT Viagogo UK) and tickets appear on the Viagogo Spanish website, although they are not on the Viagogo UK website. Is this legal?


Above is a copy of the email I sent to LOCOG and their response.

For me, it is in black and white that nobody is operating illegally. Obviously there is one other person on this forum who will decide to disagree with me and tell me how they know better than LOCOG.
 

 
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Post # 9
Top Sun 10th Jun 2012 22:06
Markland

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This is pure semantics

Ask LOCOG if Viagogo are authorised to sell, or resell, Olympic tickets

Not Aristeia, nobody has said Aristeia are not authorised

Ask if VIAGOGO are authorised

They are not

Then ask them if viagogo are breaking section 31 of the Olympic Act

They are

Nobody is talking about Aristeia, or the rules for Authorised Ticket Resellers

We are talking about viagogo and the law

You need to pin LOCOG down on the answers

In case you hadn't noticed they totally ignored the part about the legality

Makes you wonder why doesn't it


 
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Post # 10
Top Mon 11th Jun 2012 08:20
ackerman2406

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I don't think I have ever read such a ludicrous reply! How can you argue about rules with the body that made them?

Having called LOCOG three times and emailed them once (see their reply below) I am more than satisfied that they are aware of the situation and do not consider it illegal. As they are the ones to make the rules I would rather listen to their decision than that of some self-titled "expert".

We can confirm that we are aware of Aristeia's partnership with Viagogo.sp and that they have not breached any of the rules set out for Authorised Ticket Reseller's.

We hope this information has been useful. Please get in touch if you have any further questions.


No, I don't wonder why they have totally ignored the part about legality. Obviously it's not relevant. I do note that they used the word "partnership".

Such a pity. This could be a great forum with like-minded people bouncing ideas off each other, not such like-minded people debating issues and everyone helping those who have been cheated.

Instead it's become a platform for one individual with an enormous ego who cannot bear to be proved wrong and whose domination of every thread discourages others to post their opinions.
 

 
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Post # 11
Top Mon 11th Jun 2012 09:16
Markland

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Who is arguing with LOCOG?

All we've said is that you have asked the wrong question and LOCOG have ignored the question about legality

In case you hadn't noticed the "rules for authorised ticket resellers" are not the same as the law

One is passed by a private limited company and the other by Parliament

The original point was are viagogo authorised to resell Olympic tickets

They are not

You asked them about Aristeia who are clearly authorised, not viagogo

viagogo are not authorised, and if they resell Olympic tickets are breaking the law

Here is a simple way to check if viagogo are authrorised or not

Put any of the viagogo website addresses in this ticket checker

www.london2012.com/spectators/tickets/ticket-checker

Everytime I try it it says viagogo are NOT authorised

Funnily enough that ticket website checker is run by LOCOG

 
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Post # 12
Top Mon 11th Jun 2012 09:51
ackerman2406

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Now you are in danger of making a laughing stock of yourself.
As far as I am concerned I asked the correct question:

I understand ARISTEIA are the official re-sellers in Spain. They have chosen to sell the tickets through Viagogo Spain (NOT Viagogo UK) and tickets appear on the Viagogo Spanish website, although they are not on the Viagogo UK website. Is this legal?

and the simple answer is that it is NOT illegal. I presume that Aristeia are allowed to sell the tickets by any means they choose. If they choose to sell them on a website hosted by Viagogo that is obviously allowed. I advise you to re-read the reply from LOCOG. They know the situation and are obviously comfortable with it. My question was simple, direct and to the point - as was the answer.

I am guessing that if Viagogo.sp were buying in tickets and selling them off their own bat that WOULD be illegal, as would the selling of tickets from sources other than Aristeia. But that is not what is happening. They have created a platform for Aristeia to sell tickets through their website. LOCOG is happy with that. I'm happy with that. If you are not happy with it I suggest you contact the IOC. You'd better be quick because all this is going to be yesterday's news in just a few weeks time.

Before London was even allowed to bid for the Games they had to agree to the laws pertaining to the selling of tickets as prescribed by the IOC. So presumably some of the finest legal brains in the UK poured over the laws made by some of the finest legal brains in the world. But you seem to know better.



 
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Post # 13
Top Mon 11th Jun 2012 11:08
Markland

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Ackerman

No one minds a bit of banter on here but pathetic insults and baiting really do nothing to support your efforts at obfuscating the fact that viagogo are not authorised to sell olympic tickets

And that has been the whole point all along

They are not on the LOCOG list of authorised sellers or resellers

So if viagogo, or any other company, without written authority from LOCOG sell or resell Olympic tickets they are breaking the law

Its clear in section 31 of the relevant act as quoted earlier

Section 41(5) makes it an offence to do so anywhere

And, as you point out, the law was put together by some of the finest legal minds in the UK, which is why it is so clear that if viagogo sell or resell olympic tickets without written authority from LOCOG they are breaking the law

We'd be interested in hearing from those fine legal minds as to whether viagogo are breaking the laws they drafted so well

If all they are doing is providing a website in order to latch onto the Olympic tickets and put out rubbish press releases giving the false impressions they are part of the "Olympic family" thats another matter entirely

As for asking the correct question, you asked about Aristeia, who are authorised, not the very simple question "are viagogo authorised to sell or resell Olympic tickets"

Not sure why you and a small group of others here seem intent on defending a company that was suspended from a prevention forum run by the Metropolitan Police designed to protect the Olympics, that also liquidated its UK limited company and fled the UK leaving massive debts that, at this moment in time do not appear to have been paid off in full, and was exposed for its potentially illegal business practices by Dispatches earlier this year
 
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Post # 14
Top Mon 11th Jun 2012 11:34
ackerman2406

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Well done, you managed to make three replies before mentioning the Dispatches programme.

I asked if was legal for Aristeia to use Viagogo.sp to resell Olympics tickets. That is what is happening. The answer came back that they were aware of the PARTNERSHIP (please note that word) and no rules had been breached.

Aristeia are using Viagogo.sp as means of re-selling tickets in Spain. I don't know what methods they use in the other dozen countries that they are authorised to sell tickets in. By your definition, they wouldn't be able to advertise the tickets in a newspaper because that paper isn't authorised by LOCOG.

I've done my bit. You say you would be interested in hearing from the fine legal minds as to whether Viagogo are breaking the laws that they drafted. I suggest you ask them.

You really are making yourself look silly by trying to win this arguement. LOCOG have answered the question I asked them. Nobody has ever suggested that Viagogo.sp are selling Olympic tickets themselves - not even Viagogo. All they say is that they are in collaboration with Aristeia. There is nothing at all in the IOC rules to suggest that this cannot be done.
 
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Post # 15
Top Mon 11th Jun 2012 11:50
nancyhaven

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Quote from Markland - 11th Jun 2012 11:08 View
"We'd be interested in hearing from those fine legal minds as to whether viagogo are breaking the laws they drafted so well"
Well, I think you'd better get in touch with the IOC because I can't imagine they read this forum.

Not sure why you and a small group of others here seem intent on defending a company that was suspended from a prevention forum run by the Metropolitan Police designed to protect the Olympics, that also liquidated its UK limited company and fled the UK leaving massive debts that, at this moment in time do not appear to have been paid off in full, and was exposed for its potentially illegal business practices by Dispatches earlier this year

What are you talking about here?  What massive debts?  Who do they owe money to?

 
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Post # 16
Top Tue 12th Jun 2012 20:58
Markland

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The whole point at the very start of this was that viagogo are not authorised to sell Olympic tickets

And that if they did they would be breaking the law

They are not authorised to sell Olympic tickets its as simple as that, even their own director admitted as such on BBC Radio 4

Why on earth you started banging on about Aristeia, who are authorised, we have no idea

The whole point was no matter what garbage viagogo come out with about being part of the Olympic family, partnerships with, or collaborations with Olympic committees or anything else, the simple fact is LOCOG doesn't trust them enough to let them sell Olympic tickets and they are hanging off other peoples coat tails to give themselves an appearance of legitimacy

Thanks for admitting at last that if they sell, or resell, Olympic tickets they would be breaking the law

That was the whole point all along


Cheers

 
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Post # 17
Top Tue 12th Jun 2012 22:45
ackerman2406

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Quote from Markland - 12th Jun 2012 20:58 View

 

Thanks for admitting at last that if they sell, or resell, Olympic tickets they would be breaking the law

That was the whole point all along

 

No, the whole point is that Viagogo (the company mentioned in Dispatches, just in case you've forgotten) are not selling or re-selling tickets for the Olympics and have never claimed to.  Read back through the thread - it's you that kept saying they were doing something illegal - even when LOCOG confirmed they were not.  It's you who told me to rephrase the question to LOCOG, to ask them if it was legal for Viagogo (the company mentioned in Dispatches) to sell tickets for the Olympics.  Why would I want to do that?  We all know (apart from you ofcourse) that they are not.  I wanted to know if their involvement with Aristeia was legal - and LOCOG confirmed that it is.  Who knows if LOCOG trusts Viagogo or not?  Where is their opinion recorded?  Who, apart from you, cares?

I don't have any problem with Viagogo's part in this.  You, as a Concerned Citizen, obviously do.  Why are you wasting your time posting on here?  If you hurry, you have enough time to contact the IOC and have the whole Games called off.  I'm sure that someone as important as you has all the right telephone numbers on speed dial.

 

 
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Post # 18
Top Tue 12th Jun 2012 22:58
ackerman2406

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Quote from nancyhaven - 4th Jun 2012 16:12 View
viagogo and Aristeia announce a new ticket partnership


viagogo Press Release
April 17, 2012



viagogo, Europe’s largest online ticket marketplace has today announced a new partnership with Aristeia, a leading European hospitality provider to offer a range of online ticketing solutions.

The Aristeia web shops powered by viagogo will enable the hospitality provider to offers its customers and clients greater access to the hottest entertainment tickets for a broad range of sporting events. The online ticket shops will be powered using state of the art technology solutions, providing a safe and secure platform to buy live event tickets.

.

Looks as if the above press release is spot-on.  No mention of Viagogo selling tickets - just powering the Aristeia web shop.  That is exactly what's happening.  It's only Markland who seems to think that Viagogo are doing something illegal.  Did anyone see them mentioned in the Dispatches programme by the way?

 

 
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Post # 19
Top Wed 13th Jun 2012 17:55
arkleyali

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Quote from nancyhaven - 11th Jun 2012 11:50 View

Quote from Markland - 11th Jun 2012 11:08 View
"We'd be interested in hearing from those fine legal minds as to whether viagogo are breaking the laws they drafted so well"
Well, I think you'd better get in touch with the IOC because I can't imagine they read this forum.

Not sure why you and a small group of others here seem intent on defending a company that was suspended from a prevention forum run by the Metropolitan Police designed to protect the Olympics, that also liquidated its UK limited company and fled the UK leaving massive debts that, at this moment in time do not appear to have been paid off in full, and was exposed for its potentially illegal business practices by Dispatches earlier this year

What are you talking about here?  What massive debts?  Who do they owe money to?

Nancy,

All I can tell you is that since they moved to Switzerland nothing has changed for me as a seller (tout) on Viagogo.  They still continue to pay me the correct (not unsubstantial) amount on time every two weeks.  And they are still available to speak to in their London office if I need them.

 
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Post # 20
Top Wed 13th Jun 2012 18:02
Medusa
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Oh arkleyali - of course it won't change for touts!!! it's the punters I feel for.
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”
 
 
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